CLAY: Appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Encourage you to go subscribe to the podcast, sign up for YouTube, TRUTH Social, Rumble, we’re everywhere. And one reason a lot of those social numbers are growing so rapidly is because we’ll have conversations that, frankly, don’t occur very many places, such as the one we’re about to have with Alex Berenson. Alex, when we were having you on last year and you were starting to share the data on the covid shot and the fact that it was not going to limit the spread or keep people from getting covid, it was considered to be unacceptable, the White House was furious, and this is why I want to start with you.
On your Substack you have a story up, you have written documentation that the White House, in meetings with Twitter, demanded that you no longer be able to share your opinions on social media because the White House considered it to be disinformation, misinformation, however you want to classify it. For people who don’t know exactly what happened, what happened and what was the impact of that White House activity?
BERENSON: Well, I think the short answer is I’m still investigating that, I’m still finding that out. But what happened that I know for certain is last August, Twitter banned me. And they had been ratcheting up the pressure on me starting in mid-July of last year, July of 2021. I’d been a pretty popular Twitter user, probably one of the more prominently skeptics, first about lockdowns and, you know, school closures and stuff like that in 2020, and then raising questions about the vax.
I think, you know — and I say it was in a very data-driven and measured way. But they clearly didn’t like that, people in the public health community didn’t like that, Democratic politicians didn’t like that, journalists didn’t like that. And so — and yet Twitter, you know, for most of 2020 and early ’21 told me essentially we have your back, basically. We know what you’re doing, we think it’s okay.
So, at some point in the late spring or summer of 2021, that changed. And it changed very publicly for me in July of 2021. They banned me or locked me out of my account for the first time after President Biden said — he didn’t mention me, but he said, you know, these social media platforms are killing people. So, that led me to sue Twitter in December of 2021 saying, look, you guys banned me in August. That was wrong. I didn’t do anything wrong. You know, you made these representations to me, and you’re violating your own, you know, contract with me and you’re violating my First Amendment rights, you’re acting, you know, on behalf of the state. You know, by state, I mean federal government.
Okay. In April of this year, a couple months ago, a judge, a federal judge in California said I had a viable claim, that I had proven or at least stated plausibly that Twitter had indeed violated its terms of service with me. That led to settlement negotiations between me and Twitter. In July, a month ago, Twitter put me back on the platform and acknowledged that it shouldn’t have taken me off. So that was where we were until a couple days ago. A couple of days ago I posted these documents. And what the documents show is that in April of 2021, before I came under public pressure, the White House appears to have specifically targeted me with Twitter. They went — they had a meeting at the White House, and nobody’s disputing the authenticity of these documents, and after the meeting, Twitter people said to each other internally, they were very interested in Alex Berenson. They wanted to know why he’s still on the platform.
So, that gives me a viable claim to sue the White House and to sue a guy named Andy Slavitt, who at that time was a covid — an adviser to the covid response team who has — you know, who’s been very prominent in the Democratic response to covid. But he was working in the White House at that time, and he’s specifically mentioned in these documents and say, look. You guys tried to use the power of the federal government against me specifically. You leaned on Twitter and four months later Twitter banned me. So, I’m gonna — I need to know how that happened, I need to know how you silenced me. I have a right as a — you know, as an American citizen under the First Amendment to speak, to speak publicly. Twitter is a very, very important platform. You obviously knew that. You wanted me off. What happened? So, I’m gonna sue, you know, the White House, and I’m gonna sue Slavitt, and we’ll see what happens.
BUCK: Speaking to Alex Berenson. He has a Substack, which you should all check out, and also his book is Pandemia. Alex, I want to ask you about covid because Clay and I have just — if I hear, as we know, Dr. Jill Biden, what was your line, Clay, on Twitter? Not a good enough doctor to avoid covid, you know.
CLAY: I don’t think she — she should have taken it more, seriously —
BUCK: Should have gotten five shots.
BUCK: This — with Bourla and the other,the CEO of Moderna bemoaning the disposal of 30 million shots ’cause nobody wants them, it feels like the whole thing is collapsing. Is there even any good evidence at this point to suggest that if someone got their booster six months ago, let’s say, they are any more protected than anybody else?
BERENSON: Oh, absolutely not, no. Six months ago, no. Against Omicron, no. You probably are at higher risk of infection. The booster seems to work for somewhere between two and six weeks against Omicron. That’s about it. No. Here’s the — you know, the punch line is, yeah, Moderna’s dumping 30 million doses. The U.S. government is spending almost $2 billion to buy 66 million boosters from them and three billion to buy another hundred million boosters from Pfizer. They are reloading with shots that nobody’s gonna want, that we’re spending $5 billion on.
BUCK: Can I just ask you, Alex, is this an even bigger failure — a year ago we were having you on, and I might add to some considerable heat that Clay and I got for this, including from other people on the right. “I think Alex is going too far on the vaccine. Alex is, you know, he’s lost it on this one,” even for people that were open to, you know, your initial research. Is this even more of a collapse of the vaccine Biden mandate regime than you had anticipated?
BERENSON: God. I mean, you know, on the one hand, yes. On the other hand, people — so they’re sort of the only things happening, right? Everybody knows, right, everybody knows that the vaccines don’t really work, right, at best. And that’s why people won’t get — we talked about this in the past. That’s why people are not getting their kids vaccinated. That’s why vaccine demand has collapsed. On the other hand, you still have to sort of — I mean, I don’t and you don’t, but people will still sort of throw out, but they do protect against severe disease and death. And, frankly, for that at this point is essentially close to anything like, if you really know what the data says. So I mean — I guess what I — I guess I don’t need to have that fight. I guess you’re right. As long as nobody’s getting the shot, that’s people knowing the truth, whether they want to talk about it or not.
CLAY: You know, but, Alex, I actually think — you just mentioned that we’re gonna spend $5 billion on a lot of boosters that nobody wants. And I’m sure you’ve seen the articles about the Moderna executives who are buying multimillion-dollar estates and fancy housing. Certainly that’s happening at Pfizer as well with what they’re paying these top people. I think we do need some sort of recompense here. And I know — and this has been something that you’ve talked about and we’ve hammered on this show, right now you can’t see over anything that goes wrong with these shots which should have been terrifying in the first place for anybody out there thinking about taking them. But shouldn’t there be some investigations?
If the Republicans take the House and maybe the Senate, but certainly the House at a minimum, shouldn’t we have a real investigation into how this money got spent, the failure, and, frankly, I think that there should be potentially criminal investigations because it seems quite clear — I’m curious if you agree with this.
It seems quite clear that we were fraudulently induced to take these shots and that there has to be substantial evidence of fraud inside of Moderna and Pfizer over the fact that these things were not working while they were getting people fired for refusing to take them, right? I feel like there needs to be some consequence other than everybody just says, “Ha-ha, these don’t work, we’re not gonna take ’em anymore.” Well, they’re still making billions of dollars and people still lost their jobs.
BERENSON: So, look. I mean, we need to investigate. Whether or not there was criminal behavior or anything like that, I’m sure not prepared to go there at this point. Here’s what you have to remember. This collapse happened extremely fast, the collapse in vaccine efficacy. Okay. These vaccines were only invented in the spring of 2020. They were only put into people’s arms beginning in the summer of 2020.
By November, it was suddenly they were a miracle, okay? So the companies were only a few weeks or months, a couple months, at most, ahead of everybody else. The reason that I — you know, the reason that, like, I, you know, was so loud in sounding the alarm in the spring of 2020 wasn’t that I knew something was wrong. It’s that I knew that the data wasn’t there to support what the companies were saying. But it wasn’t just the companies. It was the public health authorities. And then over the summer it became clear that efficacy was gonna collapse much faster than people thought. And that became clear, as I stated, because of data out of Israel.
BERENSON: But the crime here, I mean, and “crime” is sort of the wrong word, but let’s say crime. The crime here isn’t what we know. It’s that we don’t know — what we don’t know. And the companies haven’t been forced to collect the data properly. They haven’t been forced — so there is a study that came out a couple of days ago showing that the vaccines seem to have some heart impact on a lot of teenagers, okay, out of Thailand.
Now, we already knew that myocarditis and pericarditis are a risk for young people who get these shots, okay? This study wasn’t that big, it wasn’t definitive but, you know, it adds to the questions about whether or not any teenager or any young adult should be getting the shot. That’s good. Why was this done, you know, out of a Thai military hospital? Why wasn’t Moderna required to do this last year? Why didn’t the NIH do this itself last year?
Why are we spending a billion dollars on long covid, which I will continue to insist to the end of my days is basically nonexistent. And, you know, it’s yet another sort of like made-up syndrome looking for insurance dollars and drug company dollars.
BUCK: Yeah. And sympathy online, by the way. People love to talk about, “Oh, my long covid,” and they get all the comments about, “Be brave, push through your long covid,” as in, you know, you’re a little depressed. Alex, before we let you go —
BERENSON: Exactly but — last thing — but why don’t we — why didn’t we spend the money to figure out about myocarditis?
BUCK: Yeah. We don’t want any answers here. I mean, you know, Fauci’s — is going around dressed like a hipster talking about the Fauci Effect. I mean, anybody who still believes that guy is anything other than the worst public health official in the history, I think, of the modern world is out of their minds. But I did want to ask you quickly ’cause you alluded to this — and I saw some study out of Iceland. I don’t know if it’s, you know, real deal. I know you read all the studies — that suggests negative efficacy as in there is a concern that you could be more likely to contract a strain of covid based on if you’ve gotten X-number of shots. Where are we on that? Is there real data to support negative efficacy?
BERENSON: I read the article, I think it’s real, it’s good, is a national level study from, you know, rich country that has smart scientists. Yeah. What that says is you are infected and then vaccinated, you have a better chance of getting covid than if you were infected and did not get vaccinated. Then it’s really amazing how bad the vaccines are turning out to be. But this is what happens when you rush a technology that basically didn’t exist and put it in a billion people after a couple of months of research. It’s a bad idea. And we would have been lucky, very lucky if none of this has happened. Instead we’re just getting what you would expect.
And by — one last thing. I know I gotta go, I know you guys are short on time. The all-cause mortality numbers are bad. They are bad all over the world in the mRNA countries. What I mean is, for months now, in the U.K., in Australia, in Germany, and a lot of countries that collect data better than we do, they are seeing a rise in overall death count. Not a huge rise, but a 5 to 10% rise in noncovid deaths that is strikingly correlated to the you know, to the mass vaccination.
CLAY: And, Alex, isn’t that also even younger people, right, like 18 to 49s you’re seeing some of the highest increases in, you know, sort of unexplained death relative to expectations?
BERENSON: So, that’s gotten thrown around a lot because there’s this one insurance company executive that talks about it. It’s not actually clear to me that that’s true, although actually in the next few minutes I’m gonna have a Substack that’s gonna strike people about some data out of New Zealand. So — so — look. Older people die at much, much higher rates than younger people. So you can see it more clearly when there’s less statistical noise. But when you look around the world, this is something that we should be talking about. But how are the public health authorities going to admit this if it’s a problem? How do they admit, hey, you know, maybe we caused a 5% increase in overall deaths worldwide?
BERENSON: Thanks, guys.